Posts by Disillusioned JW

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, what? According to the Bible the events of 2 Kings 25:22-26 took place after the exile mentioned in verse 21. Thus according to the Bible, after the exile (of that mentioned in verse 21) took place there were still Jews in Judah until the event which is described in verse 26. Furthermore, those mentioned in verse 26 did not go to Babylon but instead went to Egypt. Furthermore, the science of archaeology shows that some people remained in Judah while others were in exile in Judah. Also verse 12 mentions those who were not included in the group of exiles mentioned in verses 18-21.

Even if the ones (mentioned in verse 26) who fled from Judah into Egypt can correctly be said to have gone into exile, they left after other did and thus it can not be said that all of the people of Judah had been in exile for the exact same amount of time, such as 70 years or some other number of years.

As for Moses I don't believe he (or Yahweh) parted the red sea, however some scientists say the Hebrews might have crossed the "reed sea" (sea of reeds) and they say that a tsunami might have temporarily drained the reed sea. Other scientists say the archaeological evidence is there was no mass exodus of millions of Hebrews from Egypt to the land of Canaan. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed which says the following.

"The book remarks that, despite modern archaeological investigations and the meticulous ancient Egyptian records from the period of Ramesses II, also known as Ozymandias (13th century B.C.), there is an obvious lack of any archaeological evidence for the migration of a band of semitic people across the Sinai Peninsula,[16] except for the Hyksos.

... Finkelstein and Silberman argue that instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan after the Exodus (as suggested by the book of Joshua), most of them had in fact always been there; the Israelites were simply Canaanites who developed into a distinct culture.[19] Recent surveys of long-term settlement patterns in the Israelite heartlands show no sign of violent invasion or even peaceful infiltration, but rather a sudden demographic transformation about 1200 BCE in which villages appear in the previously unpopulated highlands;[20] these settlements have a similar appearance to modern Bedouin camps, suggesting that the inhabitants were once pastoral nomads, driven to take up farming by the Late Bronze Age collapse of the Canaanite city-culture.[21] "

Furthermore, when what I read and from documentaries I saw on television I think that the biblical Moses probably never even existed.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, I think all of us commenting in this topic thread agree that many people of Judah went into exile after Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon, but not all of us believe that every Jewish survivor of the conquest of Jerusalem and Judah went into exile in Babylon. Furthermore, not all of us believe that all of Judah was totally desolate (with no Jewish population at all) for exactly 70 years.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

Disillusioned JW

LongHairGal have you thought of directing them to the WT's web page where they list the current governing body members and point out to them that Anthony Morris III is not included in the list (or while showing them the web page, asking them why his name is not included in the list)?

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

Clarification: In my prior post where I said "... after the exile took place ..." I meant it in the sense of "... after the completion of the removal of people into exile took place ...."

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

Notice that the verse immediately prior to 2 Kings 25:22 (which mentions that some people were "left behind in the land of Judah"), namely verse 21, says "... Thus Judah went into exile from off the soil." (1970 and 1984 NWT). Thus, according to 2 Kings chapter 25, after the exile took place (after the destruction of Jerusalem) there were still Jews left in Judah until after the start of the "seventh month" when those remaining eventually fled to Egypt.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

2 Kings 25:11 (1970 and 1984 NWT) although saying that all of the people who "were left behind in the city" of Jerusalem (see verses 9-11 for the identification of the city) were taken into exile, verse 12 (1970 and 1984 NWT) says the following. "And some of the lowly people of the land the chief of the bodyguard let remain as vinedressers and compulsory laborers." Furthermore, notice that according to 2 Kings 25:24 (1970 and 1984 NWT) Gedaliah told the Jewish people "Do not be afraid of [being] servants to the Chaldeans. Dwell in the land and serve the king of Babylon, and it will go well with you." By "land" he meant Judah. Notice also that they were told that their servitude to Babylon would be in "the land", and thus in Judah. As I stated (with documentation) in an earlier post in this topic thread, archaeological findings show that some people remained in Judah during the exile. The verses mentioned above also support my claim that when emperors conquer lands to expand their territory they want some of the native people to remain in their native lands and to work in their lands, while being subjects of the emperor.

According to 2 Kings 25:22-26, it wasn't until 11 Jews later murdered Gedaliah and also the Jews and "Chaldeans" who were with him at Mizpah, that all of the remaining Jews of the land of Judah fled to Egypt (those were not taken into exile by the Babylonians). According to the account, it would have been very different if thosee murders hadn't happened. According to the account, if those murders (done by Jews) hadn't happened, many Jews, including even the surviving "chiefs of the military forces" could have remained in Judah without fear of becoming killed, or being sent to Babylon, or becoming mistreated by the Babylonians ("Chaldeans").

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

According to the Bible after governor Gedaliah (a capable, good, and kind Jewish man, who disbelieved reports that a particular man intended to murder him) of Judah got murdered by a fellow Jew (the very one whom he was warned about), the remaining Jews in Judah then became very scared and thus fled to Egypt (though Jeremiah had urged Jews not to flee to Egypt. According to the Bible, previously some of the Jews who had fled from Judah to other countries, returned to Judah after Gedaliah had invited Jews to return and to grow crops, and had told me them they would be safe.

2 Kings 25:22 (1970 NWT) says the following. "As for the people left behind in the land of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had left behind, he now appointed over them Gedaliah ...." By the way, that gives a positive biblical meaning to the phrase "left behind". This shows that according to the Bible, that Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had wanted some Jewish people to remain in Judah, instead of being exiled to Babylon.

Read verses 23-24 and note what they say Gedaliah said to the Jewish people who had returned to Judah (while Gedaliah was still in power).

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman in the two congregations I attended I rarely heard of any announcement of an elder ceasing to be an elder, but when I did hear of such I did not assume the worst. I knew that people could loose interest in being a elder, or a ministerial servant, just as they could loose interest in being a regular pioneer.

I had quit being a regular pioneer due to burn out and due to never enjoying spending so much time and effort in field service, and because of desiring to pursue a better career. I had gone to college to get a great career and had completed college (and obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration) three months after I had become a regular pioneer, but was only working part-time because of the hours requirement (90 hours per month or 1000 hours per year, of field service time, not to mention the time preparing for return visits and talking points to be used in the field) of regular pioneering. After being a pioneer after nearly 3 full years, for a month or two a number of people in my congregation said things to me indicating they thought I was still a pioneer. I thus felt compelled to tell them I had quit. An announcement during the meetings was never made to the congregation that I was no longer a pioneer. I wondered why it wasn't, since i thought such announcements did not necessarily mean the former pioneer had done something wrong. I had thought that such announcements were required to be made when a person ceased being a regular pioneer, for any reason (not just for doing something bad or for not meeting the requirements). I had wished that such an announcement had been made about me, so I wouldn't have to tell people week after week that I quit being a regular pioneer. When I told people that I quit being a regular pioneer they looked sad, but that puzzled me because I had never intended to be a regular pioneer for the rest of my life. But in hindsight, I guess if an announcement had been made, then many people would ask me why I am no longer a pioneer and I would have felt compelled to tell them that I had quit, so they would know I had not been removed as a pioneer and had not become disqualified to be a pioneer.

Multiple times during the years I was a ministerial servant I had thought of resigning as a ministerial servant. Multiple times I even considered resigning as a ministerial servant by me making an announcement from the platform of the kingdom hall (at a time when I was assigned by an elder to give announcements he had written down) that I was no longer a ministerial servant (and possibly also saying I had resigned). One reason I thought of doing such (in the congregation of which I was first a ministerial servant) was because an elder had announced to the congregation I had become a ministerial servant, even though prior to that I had not been informed I was chosen to be a ministerial servant or even asked if I wanted to be one. I had wished they had asked me first and I had resented that they hadn't. [In the second congregation I attended I was asked first and I accepted it, but multiple times I later thought of quitting being one in that congregation also. Eventually I did cease being one.] I had also thought that if in my first congregation if an elder would complain of me quitting that way with me making an announcement of such without the approval of the elders, then I would reply: "Well, I was appointed as a ministerial servant without my pre-approval and it was announced that I was a ministerial servant without me ever being informed that such would be announced, thus I thought I would quit without telling the elders of my intention and announce it without their approval". However I never did make such an announcement and never did quit being a ministerial servant at that first congregation, though obviously I ceased being one there after I moved to a second congregation.

Readers, regarding Raymond Franz becoming disfellowshipped and the circumstances of such, if I recall correctly from reading his autobiography, the process of him being investigated by the WT headquarters for possible disfellowshipping started soon after the following. In the congregation Franz was attending the elder body had decided to appoint Franz as an elder and had submitted their recommendation. The governing body of the WT strongly disliked that and thus sought some grounds to prevent such and to oust Franz from the WT's JW religion. The WT soon adopted a policy that if a JW eats a meal with a person who disassociated himself/herself from being a JW then the JW eating with such a person would be subject to disfellowshipping (if unrepentant of eating with the officially ex-JW).

As a side note, yesterday a JW woman (whose voice sounded like that of an elderly person), attending a kingdom hall of the territory of which my home is located in, called me to engage in witnessing (about the topic of "does God answer prayers"). I told her I am an inactive JW who wishes to remain inactive (and I mentioned the name of the congregation I last attended). I also told her "but I wish you a great day".

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

In post on page16 of this topic thread where I quoted a Wikipedia article which used as a source the article called "What Happened to Tyre?" by Bible Reading Archeology, I had thought the source (without me reading its full web page) was a scientific publication, but it now appears to be a religious publication (which makes use of scientific information). I noticed that it has some inconsistencies in what it said about Tyre, including where it says the following. "The first part of the city was on the mainland and the second part was on an island just under a kilometre from the shoreline. ... Tyre became very wealthy and the island portion of the city over time became heavily fortified. The city on the mainland was the secondary part of the city and principally served to supply the island with water and supplies. One might think of the mainland portion of the city as being the “suburbs” while the island was the home of the wealthy and those of noble birth."

The inconsistencies in the article by Bible Reading Archeology raises questions in my mind of the accuracy of the article. It prefer to have a source which is of a science journal for the claims of the article, including the following. "Other cuneiform tablets show that at some point Tyre was in the hands of the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. Finally, a cuneiform tablet at the British Museum shows that Nebuchadnezzar did indeed successfully engage the Egyptian forces." I wonder how accurate are the claims of those two quoted sentences.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

Disillusioned JW

You are welcome. It is indeed a lot to parse through (or figuratively digest).